The Direction of Pangaea and Nerfing Classes

[Bestia Domare]

Hello all!

I am a returning player who took about a 4 year break. I've noticed a few changes to the shard since I last played and most of them are good. Its nice to see everyone so involved even after so long.

I am writing this just to shed some light on something I was a little concerned about, the changing of classes. I've done some reading around on the forums and noticed that a lot of the player base is asking for changes. The main ones I noticed are..
- Warriors healing is too weak
- Bards OP in PVM due to provocation
- Necromancers OP in PVP due to kill and sacrifice

Some of these have already been changed in some way or another but I just want to ask, was it really so bad the way it was? Hear me out.

Why not have a class that gives more of a challenge, why not have class who is great at PVM, why not have a class that is great at PVP?? I was a warrior 4 years ago and it was still a lot of fun, i was one of the few since everyone assumed the healing to worsen the class. It really bit them in the ass when they underestimate you like that.
And regarding bard and necro, those are some of the hardest skills to develop on the shard, why not reward them with some badassery?? we all are free to chose those classes if its what we are looking for. Dont be upset just because someone can kill bigger monsters, or ruin you in PVP. i think its fun, if i see a necromancer it gives me that sweet sense of fear because i know he could use the "Kill" at any moment, i would hate to see something great like that taken away... and for those of you that still complain, you should know that you do have options.. RUN if you so please.
And some of us may want to solo hunt, why not have a class that can do that? the bard is not so great in PVP and provo is HARD to train so you are sacrificing something for the great hunting skills, and believe me its still no cake walk.
If you want absolutely even classes in all aspects, go play a different game, because if we are going to constantly nerf and boost classes to equalize them with the others, we mine as well just have ONE class since that's the only way it will ever be that way.
The variation is great, and like i said, we are all free to choose those classes if we want. The fact that most of us still choose to play different classes proves that there is still something to enjoy that is worth more to you than strong PVM or PVP.

and no i dont have a necro or a bard, (i used to have a bard 4 years ago but never got him super strong, it was still loads of fun)

Anyhow, the staff has done a great job with the classes and I urge you all to support keeping the classes as they were (or at least close to it) the huge nerf to provocation especially broke my heart </3

send a huge WOOT! if you agree

[Masano]

what do ya send if ya disagree with everything ya say

staff have been doing a great job and classes are more balanced than they have ever been

edit: Most players dont like OP things, no matter what class has them so I think you are in the minority

[Bestia Domare]

what do ya send if ya disagree with everything ya say

staff have been doing a great job and classes are more balanced than they have ever been

edit: Most players dont like OP things, no matter what class has them so I think you are in the minority

just opening discussion. im writing this to benefit everyone. If people still want change so be it, just instilling some thought before we are so rash.

also would it be possible to get this moved to general discussion, i should have posted it there.

[Masano]

OP things in PvP and PvM just isnt good for the shard.

OP things in PvM lead to people gathering huge quantities of items that then devalue them or give them unfair advantage over the rest of the shard. E.G Teks collecting 2k daemon skull ores when swarm was uber or Laws using malleus spam to kill the hardest monsters on the shard in seconds.

OP things in PvP piss people off. Veteran players dont like to be instakilled when they have played for years, trained skills, got the best gear ect ect

[Glarundis]

And regarding bard and necro, those are some of the hardest skills to develop on the shard, why not reward them with some badassery?? we all are free to chose those classes if its what we are looking for. Dont be upset just because someone can kill bigger monsters, or ruin you in PVP. i think its fun, if i see a necromancer it gives me that sweet sense of fear because i know he could use the "Kill" at any moment, i would hate to see something great like that taken away... and for those of you that still complain, you should know that you do have options.. RUN if you so please.

while i agree that it's cool to see some badass shit, this is what i don't agree with you.
it's NOT cool when only that specific class has some badass shit.
we want to play different classes not because of the badass moves they got, but because of their class-specific RP!
i don't give a crap if (probably the most used example throughout the ages) eval int is a lot easier to train then spiritspeak so mages can't be as strong as necros.!!!well then, make eval int harder to train so that people who want to rp the damn mage character can be as strong as necros! i (don't even have a mage, but whatever) would want to be using flamestrikes on the damn battlefield and overwhelming everyone instead of using kills on the battlefield and overwhelming everyone.

people should be free to choose any class they want and stand a chance (even if i have to play the char's own method) against any other class (the only exceptions should be thief and thunter, because...well, i think everyone knows)

that's why i get pissed off when ppl say "you think priests are too strong?then join priest and be that strong" no ffs i don't want to be forced to change my rp because of that.

so assassins aren't supposed to be good in open-pvp battlefield?fair enough, but then make backstabs/stealth so fucking powerful that people will fear that, as much as they fear kill/sacrifice/solitude


it's EXACTLY the same problem with the tomes. if the goal is to balance them overall, instead of rite by rite, then fair enough, but then, make (i've said this before but whatever) the religions specific rituals so great that even law would ask to have malleus nerfed if, say, tek's plague gets a nerf too.


tl;dr

basically everyone wants to be as strong (in general) as everyone else, and when that doesn't happen, ppl whine. when you get killed by kill, but can't use your own "kill" to do the same back, whines come. and no, changing to that same class isn't the answer, otherwise we'd see even more necros.
with priests the staff has done some good job though, now you see even more knights/rangers/barbs than you used to see. occasional druid/monk and then many necros

[Bestia Domare]

OP things in PvP and PvM just isnt good for the shard.

OP things in PvM lead to people gathering huge quantities of items that then devalue them or give them unfair advantage over the rest of the shard. E.G Teks collecting 2k daemon skull ores when swarm was uber or Laws using malleus spam to kill the hardest monsters on the shard in seconds.

OP things in PvP piss people off. Veteran players dont like to be instakilled when they have played for years, trained skills, got the best gear ect ect

valid points but the specific cases of abuse you mention can be fixed by other means, and i highly doubt giving the bard an edge on hunting means he can just plow through endless monsters and hoard items in no amount of time. It still takes time and skill to make it through a dungeon.

Glarundis i agree with most of what you say, but is the necro really that OP? if you run into one while hunting cant you just run away or smack him and interrupt the spell? its been a while since ive faught one. the kill is reflectable and doesnt work everytime either im pretty sure. there are methods to deal with them

[Boris]

Development is a continuous process that never stops - but generally these boards aren't the best source for (unbiased) information. Good guys blame bad guys, bad guys blame good guys.

- Boris

[Mike]

Not sure how much you've played since your return but this just lacks credibility.

[Zaradon]

Development is a continuous process that never stops

- Boris

Good wording, i also have noticed that from the current Staff and accept the terms and agreements.

However, i would also point out that some things should be taken into a deeper look as i've mentoined in previous threads/discussions. No whining/flaming intended.

Instakilling abilities PvM/PvP - both sided.

PvP
* Change Kill, into a "draining in time" - basically, new Kill could work as the old one did, does 436987 dmg, but not instantly.
It could perhaps do it in XX amounts > caster's SS vs. targets XX skill and XX length of XXX.
a) Yeah, it would give the trained players (who become the target) a purpose to train, not being instakilled by 2 GM skills and some "oh so rare&expensive" reagents.
b) onehitting abilities should also go, if you ask me - any opposing reli dmg is like way too OP vs. eachother. Things just end too fast with those mechanics and take away the fun.
* Druicurse in PvP could work like ticking.
Druidcurse vs. Players could last for 10-15 minutes. After each 1-2 minutes, you will lose 2% of the fighting skills.
Example; druidcurse vs. you >

Lose 2% instantly, 1 min > tick 2% > 1 min > tick 2% > 1 min > tick 2% and so on.
In the 10'th minute your skill would be -10 and that curse will last for 5 minutes and wears off.

Sexy, huh?

Could give more, but i doupt it's scriptable and whatnot. The game should be exciting and tricky.

Right now, Pangaea is too obvious and concrete.

[Glarundis]

i like those ideas about kill and druid curse, i do, but

basically right now we have a soldat realistic mode uo, instead of a soldat normal mode uo. the problem is when you change that, suddenly a lot of the worst classes become the best and the best classes become the worst!

YEAH, soldat metaphors!