Two Religions - 1 Land

[Johnny Walac]

You can refuse as much as you want. Of course either religion can try force it to you and attack you

I read this far and you failed for me.

[Darian Darkmind]

You can refuse as much as you want. Of course either religion can try force it to you and attack you

I read this far and you failed for me.

I recommend you read the rest of it. It explains as to WHY it is stupid to do so.

[Johnny Walac]

I would accept religion interfering if they had no PvP rites or anything that would make them better in PvP then a normal guild. Basicly the religions would have "Esunas Blessing" shit. Praise Dacca and we bless your merchants.

[Darian Darkmind]

Yes, they should have blesses to ease people's life etc to make people want their help. There should always be a temptation to accept the gods and their powers... but it comes with a price.

They don't necessarily have to have any direct PvP rituals though.

Still you're missing the point. You think that if they can mix, they WILL mix instantly and all the way and every time. They mix only if both parties want to mix. If YOU don't want to mix, you don't have to mix. If you have a guild and you run a town you can say no everytime a religion comes to preach in your town. Even if they are stronger in PvP and in theory could defeat you in PvP, it really isn't something that would happen unless you really piss them off by spitting on their god or something like that... it would go to a war only if YOU start it. As long as you say no in a civilized and respectful manner, they will continue to offer their help in hope for you to accept - because neither religion is evil by default! Insulting them or their god might lead to a holy war, but that's again something you brought on you yourself with your arrogant actions. It's the same as insulting some other guild who wants to trade or work together. If you don't want war, you try to be political and peaceful. I know it might be hard for some players to be nice to people, but like I said, you reap what you sow and you should not be protected by some rules.

[Johnny Walac]

Even if they are stronger in PvP and in theory could defeat you in PvP, it really isn't something that would happen unless you really piss them off by spitting on their god or something like that...

Like I said. I would accept religion interfering if they had no extra PvP power. If they are only stronger in PvP due to numbers. I can see some fun in it.

[Darian Darkmind]

But we both know that means you amongst few others would go on a rampage and do stupid shit on them just because "you can" and they can't touch you.

This is also why the "Guilds with guilds" and "religions with religions" won't work. We have players who can't hold their tongue and would go annoy them just because they can get away with it. They would take a shit on their altar and expect not to face a holy war. We have people who do that even now. At least if there aren't rule restrictions, they know the risks of angering a god and thus making a POWERFUL enemy.

It must be that way. There has to be the fear factor, because it is a GOD. If this was a HC RP shard with mature RPers, it could work without IG mechanism forcing it simply because players would choose to respect the gods, but in a shard like this the only thing players respect is raw power. In RP sense it makes sense to respect someone who has created life itself and in theory could end it with a blink of an eye, but in this shard if it can't hurt you and loot you IG, you don't fear it and thus don't respect it.

One way to go is to remove gods altogether, but as they've always played a huge RP-role in this shard, removing them would completely change the shard and its RP. We would basically have to "restart". I'm not saying that is a bad thing, it might work, but it's not something I would jump into right away.

Another way to do it is to remove all RELIGIONS and keep the gods. Then every monk and priest, when joining their class get to choose which god they follow. Upon choosing they are granted a newbied and locked down tome that contains powers of that god. One is good for blessing and healing, one is good for PvP, one is good for PvM and one is good for merchants. These priests can then join whichever guild they want, or remain guildless. They aren't forced to fight against each other either and one guild could have a priest of each god. The players choose what they do with the powers granted to them. Some would argue over whose faith is the strongest and which god is the strongest. Some would build a church for people to preach in. Some players might even make a "religion" (A guild for priests and monks) and go as far as to war other gods, but even if such "religion" (guild) exists, it's not the only place for a priest to be. Some other player might see the guild's actions wrong, and create another "religion" for the same god to war that guild, claiming they are making their god look bad.

Actually, I think the above would be the best. There's only guilds, no set religions. Priests have their tomes (with most of the rites and rituals stripped away), but they choose what they do with it.

[Johnny Walac]

But we both know that means you amongst few others would go on a rampage and do stupid shit on them just because "you can" and they can't touch you.

A stupid comment. Obviously both sides can attack eachother if the RP leads that way.

You fail to see what I mean. The problem with Pangaea is that Religion holds all the power. There is no need to be a non-religion char.
If there was only two religions and 1 land, the two religions should hold less power. Only roleplayed power. All the cities should be owned by players and guilds without religion interfering. The only religion interfering I can see is things like "Esunas Blessing". And you still don't seem to understand.

If religion has been granted additional PvP power that is not granted to normal guilds, I do not wish to see religions interfering with guild PvP and business. If religion is like a guild but with a few "Esunas Blessing". It's okey with interfering and both sides can attack eachother if that is where the RP leads.

Maybe I misunderstood your idea. If religions were taken out of the political sphere and would just fight each other, the idea would work.

Take that out and you've got something. If religious characters got piety dropped for intervening in mortal conflict the system could work, otherwise it would be the same old Pang system.

I find it hard to believe you don't see the obvious problem. Religions are much more powerful per member than guilds, particularly in pvp. Now if religion vs religion is not completely separated from guild vs guild, it will be the same old Pang. Basically the principle has to be that religions fight each other directly while guilds fight each other directly, and no crossover. The kind of sadofetischist scenario you're describing will only have the effect of making people join a religion with their pvp char since they're the strongest, and to that, are supposedly on another level than the guilds.

Like it or not, for the system to work all guilds must operate without influence from religions on the religions will still run the shard.

Guild vs Guild
Religion vs Religion

That I like. No mix.

I'm just gonna say this again.

Punishment for religions interfering in the wars with guilds.

Yep. That's the only way this works, and I'd like to add, it would be nice.

[Xerxes]

Personally I would like to see 2 opposing religions (with identical rites/strengths) who vie for control.
Besides that the removal of robbers, and letting pvp being sheer an option for religions.

This way if you want to PVP you can join a religion, and if you are solely interested in PVM you can join a guild. But ah well, one can only wish for things.

[Aileth]

Personally I would like to see 2 opposing religions (with identical rites/strengths) who vie for control.
Besides that the removal of robbers, and letting pvp being sheer an option for religions.

This way if you want to PVP you can join a religion, and if you are solely interested in PVM you can join a guild. But ah well, one can only wish for things.

Imho, this would be really good for general ballance on pvp/pvm as gives everyone the freedom to choose to engage into pvp or pvm according to their own preferences.

Edit: pvp should also be available for guild/guild wars based on rp

[xHarlequinx]

Personally I would like to see 2 opposing religions (with identical rites/strengths) who vie for control.
Besides that the removal of robbers, and letting pvp being sheer an option for religions.

This way if you want to PVP you can join a religion, and if you are solely interested in PVM you can join a guild. But ah well, one can only wish for things.

Might want to check it out.