Veritas/Malleus/Keening mana consumption

[Jyrgen]

or 85 eval?

With 100 meditation, you'll (Monks) reach something called a "priest bonus" - wich will make your stat blesses and AR blesses massive, making you more melee-oriented.

I like the increased manacost for PvP, but it'd just screw up PvM very much for monks.

Basicly you haven't experienced poison fiend knuckles yet. I mean, they're snoggy gloves. You poison from each hit, with a speed of a dagger and the damage is like a blessed sword of a Knight. It's pretty HC.

- Boris

Yes, but that ain't helping in PvM... You ain't going to melee LotA, fiends, etc.
I'm for the original idea, together with giving monks 100 meditation.

[Boris]

What comes to bigger stuff, I'm quite sure Monks have spells. It's also good to keep in mind, extra meditation gives extra petslots for extra summons and/or poke.

- Boris

[Cruxis Bane]

I am not used to having it, I have only had it at this level for a couple months back in 06 and before imperial veritas did like 5 damage the only benefit it had was it would squelch a farther distance than laws. It is cool to see how it works now however its not a panic as I have played without it. It is something helpful for PVM and since this is a rp shard it is rather annoying when everything continuously gets changed because of PVP.

[Talerco Pious]

100 medit = better blesses => better chance to survive in melee

[Darian Darkmind]

Cruxis, of course it's cool. It was cool also while we were in Law able to kill Balrons in 15 seconds with veritas and malleus spam while being healed, cured and regenerated by the auras. It was cool when swarm was stackable so we could send 15 black wisps against a cloud giant to see it die literally in less than 5 seconds (All wisps spamming flame strike on it). It's cool, I give you that, but is it too cool? Do you need it, really, or is it making it too easy? I know easy PvM is fun and cool, but face it, killing balrons in 15 seconds or cloud giants in 5 was obviously broken. Of course having swarm first boosted and then nerfed to worse than it originally was pissed us off because we already got used to it and relied on it in hunts, but it was too powerful and we all knew it. Veritas and malleus/keening are too powerful as well. Both are already fixed in PvM and no longer work against high-end monsters, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem anymore especially in PvP. And PvP should always be taken more seriously than PvM, because where hunting monsters with OP rituals might be unfair to other hunters, it still doesn't hurt or take anything away from other players directly, whereas killing players and looting them with such rituals is a huge problem.

[Edit] Maybe that's what the problem is all about. Veritas is too cool, easy and as such fun to use. It's fast, it heals, it damages and it squelches. Giving it up feels like losing the "cool and fun"-aspect of PvP and PvM making things harder, slower and more frustrating. No one of us wants to lose things or make hunting any harder or slower than it already is, but sometimes we need to admit the facts that just like the boosted swarm with 15 black wisps, veritas and malleus/keening are too OP even if a lot of "fun".

[Vaux27]

Let Imp ride polar bears, fair compromise here.

We ride in style.

[Glarundis]

true what you said darian, but then, let's boost pvm loot.
it's annoyingly slow vs profit

[xHarlequinx]

Suggestions:

• Veritas mana consumption from 35 to 55.
• Malleus mana consumption from 10 to 30.
• Keening mana consumptions from 10 to 30.

Monk statcap
Maximum strength: 110
Maximum intelligence: 160
Maximum dexterity: 110
Maximum combined stats (statcap): 270

Priest statcap
Maximum strength: 105
Maximum intelligence: 130
Maximum dexterity: 80
Maximum combined stats (statcap): 255

So lets assume, for the sake of discussion, that all priests/monks must have max. strength.

Combat Monk
Str: 110 (+30)
Dex: 90 (+30)
Int: 70 (+30)
(1 veritas & 1 malleus / 3 malleus)

Caster Monk
Str: 110 (+30)
Dex: 30 (+30)
Int: 130 (+30)
(2 veritas & 1 malleus / 1 veritas & 3 malleus / 5 malleus)

Combat Priest
Str: 105 (+30)
Dex: 80 (+30)
Int: 70 (+30)
(1 veritas & 1 malleus / 3 malleus)

Caster Priest
Str: 105 (+30)
Dex: 30 (+30)
Int 120 (+30)
(2 veritas & 1 malleus / 1 veritas & 3 malleus / 5 malleus)

Keep in mind that this also does not account for people who choose to use int. jewels.

Combat priests/monks can still use veritas/malleus but must do so a little more thoughtfully, and caster priests/monks can still spam pretty well.

[Darian Darkmind]

The above numbers are why I don't think the mana consumption of 55 and 30 are enough. Combat monk or priest is able to cast 5x malleus/keening. Make it 4-5 priests/monks and it's 20-25 times. That's a long drail of blood left behind without a single melee hit. Same with veritas even if in less numbers. With mana regen potions and Law aura, even more.

Boosting the mana consumption is a start, but we all know this is a "fix" rather than a fix and this won't make PvP any more melee-oriented. All this does it make the attacks shorter when people run out of mana faster. It's even more about run in, spam veritas/malleus/keening, run out and meditate than it is now. It will never make it melee-oriented before we admit the simple fact it is ridiculously powerful compared to melee and as long as these rituals can be casted more than once in a tactical spot, they WILL be used, relied upon and spammed instead of going into melee and risk your own life.

One way is to boost the mana consumption but also double the casting time. Keening used to be two chants and back then it was used only as a tactical tool when someone was paralyzed, someone was in low health etc... and that's the way these rituals should be used, at least if we want the fights to be more melee-oriented. You should first be forced to go into melee, do the damage, hurt your enemies and then finish them with these rituals if needed to. As long as there rituals are fast to cast, powerful, spammable and renders melee "useless", it won't work.

[Monad]

We'll take a step at a time, if this is not enough we'll adjust more, if this is too much, we'll adjust less. No need to repeat the same thing over and over again. I think this is maybe 10th post in the same topic about the same issue, we got it Darian, we got it.