Carpenter Boost - Remove the newbie Boats

[Dante]

Basically, because boats are newbie the amount of customers carpenters get is significantly reduced.

Remove the newbie aspect from the boats so they can be looted, lost, decay etc?

**And no votes will not be truly considered unless a valid argument is put forward**

[Hilda]

No - I suggest they get damaged every x days instead, this would bring a more consistant market. (Ex: Every 30 days, they get damaged and become unusable (can't use them if in your backpack, tiller won't take commands if it's already on the sea(besides drydock)) and require 25% of the materials used to craft them for repairs.

[Bella Pious]

Well then it really depends on their Usefulness V.S. Price (as well as the trouble carpenter needs to go through to craft it).

Usefulness. Cooks need boat to fish. People use boats to store items and to resurrect them when no shrine is near. You can sail to islands with boats.

Price. Right now the large dragon boat is around 300k because of the high failure rate and the amount of material required to craft it.

300k is matching up to some useful indy cloth. If I were to have a chance of losing it whenever I die then I would probably store it in the bank unless I am going out with a party. So unless you lower the price by making it easier for Carpenters to craft boats, boats will lose its usefulness. It will not increase the sales because people will be more careful using their boats and less people are willing to use them. Boats should be newbified when in your main backpack, but let them have decay timer if parked. If it is not too much trouble to script, let them require maintenance depending on the usage (usage could be the amount of time it has been in water, or the amount of time it has been drydocked.)

[Cyrus Tegyr]

I agree with Hilda and Bella on this point. There are some items that should remain newbified and this is one of them. Though unlike Hilda's idea, I would tack on a caveat to the "tillerman accepts no commands" rule, I would allow the player to drydock the boat for ease of transport to get it repaired. Normally I wouldn't mind if a player with carpentry has to come ou to repair it, but we have a class system that severely limits the merchant classes and as such I wouldn't expect a carpenter to want to venture into dangerous territories to repair a boat that won't drydock.

The real issue here is, not that boats are a problem but that carpenters just do not have renewable business. Once someone decorates a house, how many people change their furniture around weekly or even monthly, not many if any at all. There needs to be a way for Carpenters to have renewable business. I have an idea for this that will send offer Carpenters and Cooks (another problematic class as the way I see it, their a class lacking just as much as the carpenter class just in different ways) a way to make a little bit of money selling furniture. I need to do some research on it though, I like to base a lot of my ingame ideas on real world environments and this has been an idea floating around in my head for sometime now that came to me while I was watching Antiques Roadshow a month or two ago, just haven't put in the time to formulate a proper implementation and prevention scheme. In short cooks would be the preventative maintenance to a point, but I will elaborate more on this once I put a proper write up on the boards. Maybe in a week or two, so let's not start whining now about it. As usual sorry for the off topic but I get carried away sometimes.

Edit: Oh didn't realize this was a poll brought to us by the Staff for a Better Pangaea Foundation, thought this was another player. I guess it doesn't matter, but I gave my valid viewpoint on no

[Hilda]

I would tack on a caveat to the "tillerman accepts no commands" rule, I would allow the player to drydock the boat for ease of transport to get it repaired. \

I said beside drydock...fyi.

[Demian]

Yes. One main reason I think of is that having a boat, you always have a way of escaping PvP events that you do not want to face. And it's stupid. If there is a chance of escaping PvP whenever you want by using a boat to go on an endless sea ride, there should also be a big risk involved in carrying such an option around with you. Which is losing the boat when you die. Like you lose pretty much everything else. Don't see why this would have to be an exception.

[Cyrus Tegyr]

I would tack on a caveat to the "tillerman accepts no commands" rule, I would allow the player to drydock the boat for ease of transport to get it repaired. \

I said beside drydock...fyi.

Ahh must have missed that, well not must have I did clearly! Apologies, that's what I get for quick reading posts.

Which is losing the boat when you die. Like you lose pretty much everything else. Don't see why this would have to be an exception.

This is an exception because of the absorbitant amount of money these items cost, if we cut the cost in half which would require a serious reduction in material, skill and time to craft I see no reason why not to make them lootable however, in it's current state, which the original post never talked of changing anything in it's current state regarding crafting it makes sense that these shouldn't be lootable. However, if they require repairing there is that danger of well I might not be able to use it when I have to escape from PvP.

Personally on the PvP standpoint I see no reason why one shouldn't be able to use whatever means he wishes to escape from PvP, if the otherside (I assume would be your side) would give chase on your own boat. Obviously attacking on boats is an illegal action due to the rules but you could attack when he and your warring party lands on shore. But that's an argument for another discussion and time.

[Dante]

Boat chases just don't happen - they're pointless.

Other than that, we could half the amount of cloth required to craft one or reduce the failrate and make them lootable.

We can't neglect a class that as stated before has no renewable or profitable market, based on personal goals - how many carpenters are there vs the rest of the shard.

[Demian]

Cyrus, the reason as to why boats shouldn't be used to escape PvP is because there is no way to actually get your enemy from a boat, even if you chase him on a boat yourself. The enemy can just keep sailing for hours, or days in theory. And boat keeps ressing so the gear will never decay either. And the specifics don't matter anyway. Fact is, that is a bulletproof way to escape PvP and if nothing else it should be made illegal to use boats to escape PvP. It would be a completely different case if it wasn't possible to give orders to boat while being dead and the boat wouldn't ress. And it would be possible to enter the boat once it crashes onto some land somewhere. But THAT is for another discussion and time. Though doesn't change the fact that it's already reason enough to make boats lootable if there is no rule changes.

There are plenty of other reasons to make boats lootable too. One is it would create market as you would eventually lose your boat. Or atleast they would be lost more than they currently are. And at that point you have to buy a new one = Market for carpenters.

[Cyrus Tegyr]

We can't neglect a class that as stated before has no renewable or profitable market, based on personal goals - how many carpenters are there vs the rest of the shard.

Well as most of my posts go there are no personal gains or losses for me, I do not use boats nor do I have a character skilled enough to make them on a consistent basis. My post(s) are generally made from an outside standpoint as I thought I had made this one, even when I have a class that is affected by a change or suggested change I try to be as objective as possible and put my shoes in both sides of the argument. I have time and time again pointed out issues with Pangaea that offer me little to no gain on the simple fact that many areas have been neglected far too long while other areas have continually seen tweaks, improvements, nerfs. I apologize if the "based on personal goals" was pointed toward me but just in case, that's my defense, I've made a plethora of posts that can be reviewed to prove my point.

Back to the issue at hand.
I realize boat chases do not happen due to the shittyness of boats and the lack of offense and defense on a players stand point. I also understand the whole point of this poll is to give carpenters 1 item that is a renewable business, however, the question posed shouldn't be how many carpenters are there the question should be, who uses boats on a consistent regular basis? If it is the very few which I feel it is, then this is nothing more than a band aid trying to cover a 8 inch gash. I am not trying to take a piss out of the general idea, I am just pointing out that small changes such as these, while they might help in a miniscule way, do not get to the root of the problem.

We've seen small changes like this before to other classes giving them one item here and another there and it just doesn't get to the meat of the problem and ultimately will not help the class in the long run. Again, not trying to take a complete piss out of the idea, I get it, I just wanted to point out if boats become lootable or damageable, you might see a severe drop in usage from the already small few who probably use them on a regular basis.